Bizarre. The gates only have positive impact upstream, and no impact downstream. Everything else -- i.e., FLOODING -- is coincidental. Martin must have some fancy new science -- no more of that, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.' Wonder if they'll be rethinking the whole apple falling from the tree thing, and realizing it isn't gravity...

Of course, we shouldn't be surprised when a government agency offers proof that it did not spend millions of dollars in vain.

this is backdoor politics at work,huge current undeveloped property (pleasureland) can not be built on unless area does not flood for x amount of years. the new flood gates insure this. lots of big money at stake

BULL!!! They build it flooding is worse downstream, Oakland dont get it since they built it and it doesnt affect anything BULL!!!!!!

@tony suplicki---fact check. Please don't come aboard with unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. We have far too much of that behavior in our world.

http://theoaklandjournal.com/local-events/pleasureland-purchased/

Rob, you know as well as I do that I have never posted anything that is not true, for I insist on independently verifiable facts and I take the time to research and I don't spout off. Is that what bothers you so much that there is nothing that you can take issue with when I post it. You know for a certainty that I am not a 14 year old playing around here. My information is designed to help people.

What is PS3 ?

Maybe someone from the DEP or Aecom can explain this to me. The historical crests of the hydrograph above the Pompton Lakes Dam reached 15.33 in 1984 and 15.6 in 2005. After the installation of the gates the dam goes into active mode at 11.5 feet with no crest being significantly higher since going into operation. If the height of the river was approximately 4 feet higher and the corresponding water depth going north being at that level where is that water now? If it is beneath the dam it is getting there at a much faster rate. Any ideas would be welcome.

Scondo, I'm very serious with what I'm saying. Would you be interested in getting together with a small group of people and read the report.
This is the link for it
http://dng.northjersey.com/media_server/tr/2012/04/12dam/NJDEPPomptonLakeDamFloodateOperationStudyFINAL.pdf
Hope you are willing,

 Residents within the study area have reported surges each time the floodgate opens. The analysis was developed to ascertain the extent of any possible surge resulting from the operation of the Pompton Lake Floodgate Facility within the limitations of the modeling software.
LIMITATIONS of the MODELING SOFTWARE -

4.2.1 HEC‐RAS – Unsteady Flow Model
The USACE Hydrologic Engineering Centers River Analysis System computer model (HEC-RAS) was used to solve for the flow profiles both up and downstream of the Pompton Lake Dam. The unsteady option within HEC-RAS was chosen for its ability to solve the full dynamic, Saint-Venant equations using the implicit finite difference method. Under unsteady flow, a discharge hydrograph is applied at the upstream boundary, and a discharge-stage rating (rating curve) at the downstream boundary. The unsteady methodology allows the program to calculate both stages and discharges throughout the studied reach. Due to the operation of the Pompton Lake Dam floodgates, the water surface elevation and flow both upstream and downstream of the dam have the potential to change. Therefore, the use of the dynamic wave (discharge and stage vary over time) approach will allow for the attenuation of the water as it moves downstream.

You can see this mock up model working "live" from time to time on the SiFi Channel. It appears just before the 6 fingered hand comes out of the ground.

Flooding in some Wayne areas has only occurred in the last 5 to 7 years. Nothing is different other than the flloodgates or their operation. One need only view the neighborhood adjacent to the gates to see that what is very little street water becomes a deluge within minutes once the gates are opened. You actually see the flooding occur and can follow it directly to the gates once they are opened.

They can't account for the 2 bridges in the study.
4.2.1.3 As‐Built Data
For the Pompton Lake Dam, construction plans were supplied to AECOM from the US Army Corps of Engineers – NY District July 2003 Ramapo River at Oakland, New Jersey Flood Control Project Pompton Lake Dam. The existing data was converted to the vertical datum of NAVD88 with shift of -0.876 ft calculated via VERTCON (National Geodetic Survey). The Pompton Lake Dam spillway and gated structure with radial gates was transferred to HEC-RAS. In order to capture the inline structure and service bridge, a combination of HEC-RAS inline structure data, blocked obstructions and lidded cross- sections were used. Currently HEC-RAS does not have the ability to perform a multiple opening analysis for a bridge-inline weir combination.

I just uploaded to grafts from the USGS. Just wondering why they where not included in the report.

@ Rob :Sorry - I am Diane Blois, and I live on South Rd. in the Riverview Section of Wayne. I am secure in my opinions, but please forgive me for having doubts on what effect this will have on the powers that be as far as the flooding situation goes. I am so spent after 4 floods in the past four/five years, that I am starting to doubt that a real solution will ever be sought in my lifetime. I really hoped that this report would change things a bit.

Again, I actually saw the gates open - I then saw the water rapidly flood the neighborhood across the way. It follows that all downstream then received the flooding as water seeks its lowest levels. This is physics and good common sense. Try doing a study on that.

I can tell you first hand that Joe is correct. I live (lived) in the neighborhood across from the dam. During the height of the Hurricane Irene flood my husband and I were at the old Chevy dealer on Hamburg Turnpike trying to see our home on Riveredge Drive...the homes behind the chevy dealer were at least 8 feet under,,,I have also been at my house when they opened the gates and I ve never seen water come so fast and rise so quickly

But what areas in Wayne only started flooding in the last 5 to 7 years? I said I would research the history of those areas. Riverview is not such an area

Scondo: I can tell you this much, my home which is on riveredge drive in pompton lakes (near haroldson side) was built in 1950 and only flooded twice before the dam was operational. Once in 1984 and once in 1999. And in 1999 ( Hurricane Floyd) we had less water in the basement than we had during any of the storms after the dam was built. They can say what they want about 6 year rainfall totals its al a crock...There is no question that the dam causes increased flooding,

I also find it quite interesting that if North jersey experienced this record rainfall the past 6 years.....how come its only the towns that are affected by the Pompton Lakes Flood gates that have experienced worse flooding.. The residents along the Saddle River and Hackensack River in Bergen County although I know they experienced flooding during these storms, they did not see those rivers rise to the heights that the ramapo did, I wonder how Commissioner Martin would explain that.

Scondo- homes on middle and lower Petrie, end of Lillian, lower Kevin, lower Raymar, upper Winding - these properties have never flooded and 2 residents have been there for approx. 45 years. The water came fast and also furious for the first time and these properties have experienced hurricanes before, such as Floyd and those storms carried more rain than Irene.

Ladies & Gentlemen: Debating with Scondo is a waste of your time. Scondo (what is a Scondo, anyway?), is a shill. Scondo is a screen name shared by several individuals and used as a propaganda device to try to influence these conversations. This common tactic has been used on these comment boards before, as well as on other sites such as nj.com and politickernj. Other towns (like North Bergen, I think), have actually hired "PR firms" to engage on these comment boards under anonymous screen names in an effort to manipulate public opinion. Debating with Scondo is an effort in futility and you are outnumbered by all the folks who actually share that screen name.

Ladies & Gentlemen: Debating with Scondo is a waste of your time. Scondo (what is a Scondo, anyway?), is a shill. Scondo is a screen name shared by several individuals and used as a propaganda device to try to influence these conversations. This common tactic has been used on these comment boards before, as well as on other sites such as nj.com and politickernj. Other towns (like North Bergen, I think), have actually hired "PR firms" to engage on these comment boards under anonymous screen names in an effort to manipulate public opinion. Debating with Scondo is an effort in futility and you are outnumbered by all the folks who actually share that screen name.

@Diane, I am confused. South Road is located near Black Oak Ridge Rd & Hamburg Turnpike. I always thought that the Riverview section of Wayne was located at the Southeastern end of town, surrounding the Willowbrook Mall, some roads only access to Route 46 East, next to Fairfield. (Riverside Dr). Also adjacent are Riverlawn Dr. and the entire Hobson area. Additionally, behind the Red Lobster, is an entire neighborhood that also is part of Wayne.

I also have lived in the area for 18 years and been in floods before the gates. I wish i saved my phone videos to show you,gate lovers, how the river rose down the street every time the gate horns went off. I am now homeless due to the last gate opening knocking my walls down and washing away 18 years of our life. Unless you,gate lovers, receive a nice check from the state to promote this gate then why dont you start speaking up for your neighbors who have tried to raise families in a great neighborhood which is now a ghost town.

Mauricio, you have really put things into perspective for me, and I am so sorry for your situation. I am back in my house, and for that I am grateful. I really should stop feeling sorry for myself, because there are always people worse off. If there is any way that we can assist you, please let me know. Many houses in my neighborhood are still abandoned, so please know that you are not alone.

Diane

Completely Agree Mauricio!!! And I am so sorry about your home :(. I am in the same situation,,,my foundation collapsed also durine Hurricane irene. Best of luck to you and your family!

Mauricio -- I'm very sorry for your suffering. Words of support from others won't solve your problems, but hopefully you know that you aren't completely alone. These catastrophic situations can pull communities and people together, though solving the real underlying problem here is daunting. Wish I had answers. The "flood report" certainly doesn't have any, now does it? From what I can see from the articles I have read, the report says that rain causing flooding in flood plains. The end.

Well, that's just not helpful, even if it were true. How about solutions from these high-fallutin' engineers and self-proclaimed experts???

Does anyone realize that if Willowbrook Mall shuts down because of repeated flooding, this Town is on its way to bankruptcy????

Thank you every one for your kind words. I have one other note as I drove by the river and it caught my eye. If the gates have no affect to the river or flooding why would this big red sign be posted next to the gate and take a look as you drive by. Did the same engineer write this too.
WARNING
WHEN ALARM SOUNDS
AREA SUBJECT TO RAPIDLY CHANGING RIVER CURRENTS
DUE TO GATE OPERATION.
why would they write this is if the gate works properly. This sign was not up prior to the gate being built. 2 mediocre floods prior to gate in 14 years. 4 floods after gate in 2 years.
Again, THANK YOU!! and I wish every one the best and be safe.
Mauricio

Hey Mr Scondo, I do not know why you are so protective for the gates. Hope you are receiving the money that we aren't getting. I know flooding affects everywhere.
You can write and talk about all these stats until you convince your self and when i google nonsense, your name appears.
Just answer or explain the big red sign next to the gate.

Scondo, its great to see that you have all this great information but deep down and the end of the day, maybe you should put all your energy and effort in finding a way to support the communities that have been hurt. Like I said before , I and alot of families lost everything. Where in these reports does it say families baby pictures were lost, wedding and prom dresses destroyed. yards with fish ponds killed. gapping holes in houses from the rushing waters. Toys and memorablia that was collected to hand down to grand kids lost. If heavy rainfalls is the cause of flooding , why aren't roofs on houses collapsing instead of concrete basements. Do any of these studies say how department stores double there prices on supplies to feed off us people who have to buy products to clean there house. Where are the studies. How about the list of people going to the dr to get shots from cutting themselves in polluted water. Scondo , have you ever removed a dead fish from your basement?
Scondo, again, you sound smart but you also sound like the insurance agent that came to my house and saw the devastation and said to me "are you sure this was caused by the water"
I cannot continue writing because we, I, will always lose. Just suck it up Mauricio and keep on going.thats what I tell myself.

Mauricio - Excellent points on all accounts! And we don't have to just "suck it up" - like Rob says, the louder we are a group, the better our chances of leading to change. Don't even bother arguing with Scondo - you can't argue with ignorance. I just feel that I am the better person for not commenting on a topic when I know nothing about it. I do wonder what the study people would have to say when confronted with the point that you raised about the foundation collapsing, and not the roof. I think that gives everyone something to think about.
I agree with Rob about the buyouts - thats something that would never work for me anyway because I owe too much on my house, and I would have nowhere to go even if there was any money left. I love my neighborhood, and I really don't want to leave, but there are no options out there. It does feel slightly hopeless - especially when you look at the empty houses and stores that surround our area.

Diane, Mauricio, Cathy, Bill, Joe, Ed, John, Tony, Sandy, Josie and everyone else who is reading:

We all want the same thing. A way to reduce, better manage and/or eliminate the flooding. None of us feels that we should be forced to "solve" our problems by walking away from the property that we own. Beyond the financial loss we would all surely suffer, we would also be giving up part of our lives.

I don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows, said Bob Dylan. And I sure don't need a bunch of people sharing a screen name telling me that the flooding we have been suffering through is normal and we will need to grin and bear it.

I don't care about a "study" funded with the same tax money that also paid for the damned flood gates. What I feel on my leg isn't rain, as they say.

When the stores in the Willowbrook Mall leave and the owners of the Mall default on their debt obligations and stop paying their real estate taxes, then perhaps the County and the State will awaken from their slumber. Unemployment will spike and every single taxpayer in Wayne will suffer as a result of these floods, even if their properties stay dry.

OK, big deal. What about the rest of us? Well, I'm not really sure. Anyone know who owns Willowbrook? They have the same interests as we do -- and they have the power & political influence. We could reach out and see where it leads.
It would be great if the Mayor & Council would join us in that effort, too.

FYI. I went to change my insurance and I was denied because I am considered High Risk due to the floods which I had no control over. The agent tried to argue my point to the underwriters and they said no and said it will be very hard for me to find insurance because of these floods. So I have to keep my existing insurance that is rising as fast as the flood waters.

Scondo:

The reason why I didnt mention Westwood or Hillsdale in my comment is because they are in the same type situation as us. They are dealing with flooding from the Pascack Brook and the WOodcliff Lake Reservoir due to United Water's operation of the Woodcliff lake Dam! I am glad you mentioned Mahwah though. Look up the top 5 historical crests of the Ramapo River at Mahwah, aside from Hurricane Irene the other top ones are all from before the dam opened. Thats a big difference from the top 5 historical crests of the ramapo river at Pompton Lakes. Note that the April 2007, march 2010, and March 2011 storms are all on the top 5 crest list for Pompton lakes! Interesting that all this rain is to blame in Pompton and in Wayne..but up in Mahwah I guess it just doesnt come in to play.

What is the deal with what happened a hundred years ago or thirty or whatever? THe gates cause flooding to those properties not affected previously and contribute greatly to those that have. Period.

http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20110826/NJNEWS/308260015/Gov-Christie-orders-floodgates-open-hoping-lessen-impact-hurricane-waters-Pequannock

Yup, explain how the gates opened 3 days before the storm tracked into the area caused the flooding. The gates were opened before the storm arrived, or did everyone on this board , with the exception of one person , forget all that.

Yes they where opened and drained the lake 3 feet, after that what happened to the gates?

The gates being open 3 days before the storm did not cause the flooding - it was an idea set into motion by Governor Christie, the only person that in my opinion has tried to help us at all. It was a valiant effort, but no one could have stopped the flooding of hurricane Irene. I don't know who said that, but the gates themselves and their operation are causing our floods, and by floods I am not talking about the Hurricane - that was just the straw that broke the camels back for all of us that had flooded in 2010, and in March of 2011.

Yeah, 3 ft. - not enough and it should be done gradually.

Scondo:
Correction to your statement, the gates were opened Friday August 26, in the afternooon. I have the hydrograph printed for the Ramapo River at Pompton Lakes that shows that when the gates opened that day. Hurricane Irene hit our Area late Saturday night into Sunday So it was actually only about a day and a half before the storm. The gates did in fact lower the lake 3 feet. they also caused the Ramapo river to immediately rise over 3 feet and it took awhile for it to recede back to normal level. Again I have the graphs that prove all of this. If the gates had been opened earlier in the week and allowed the for the release of more water I might stillhave a house right now.

I have a question for those who actually have experience in this flooding issue first hand. Does anyone think that the cleanup of the rivers that has been done willl help us in a "normal" spring flood? By "normal" I mean not a hurricane. And what about the removal of the feeder dam, will that help us? I don't understand any of the study mumbo jumbo, I just know what I see in real life. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Diane, The clean up is just a PR trick. It will do nothing but make the area look better. They lowered the dam at the lake some. And they made the spillway wider. So when the open them gates you'll get a wall of water coming your way. I can't figure out what the DEP looked at? Common sense tells you that there will be more water coming over the dam. Then before the gates were installed. If you remove feeder dam? Chances are it will flood out the Old Wayne and Mt View sections faster and WillowBrook. Take out beattie dam and Paterson gets flooded faster. It's a flood plain. And I feel the only thing that will stop the spring floods. Would be to build the tunnel. But with all the rains that came with Irene? chances are there still would have been minor flooding in the basin. But not as bad as it was last year. It's just my thoughts. I'm not an Engineer but I think I have some common sense when it comes to the flooding. I use to live in Hoffman Grove till I lost everything in the 84 flood. We all knew we were buying in a flood plain. But never dreamed the waters would ever get as high as they got. Just hope they put the tunnel project back on the table.

ok, now we are finally coming to realize. The gates weren't even in play during the Irene event. So without behind us, the focus needs to shift to what can be done. If you do read the report, and it is pretty obvious that none of you have, it shows something's that can be done relatively cheaply, with available resources, with few people. Chief among them is winter time precipitation monitoring along with reservoir level synchronization. Simply put, lower all up stream retention bodies in January and February . Study will give optimum time. Replace the hill burn and Macopin storage areas that are out of system to give greater capacity. Stop all new flood plain building.
Buyouts . Elevation grants to raise, not raze structures. Remove the obsolete dams. This is a flood plain, flooding is natural. Dealing with it naturally is required.

@ Leanbean - thanks for the insight. What you have said is what I feared the answers would be. The feeder dam removal may help our neighborhood, but I feel that it will hurt the village in Pompton Plains, and since Pompton Plains is the town I grew up in, I wouldn't want that to happen either.
As far as the tunnel, didn't they say that would cost a gajillion dollars or something? That is the reason I thought they would never bring that idea back to the table. It does sound like a great solution in theory tho. And I am sorry about what you went through in Hoffman's Grove in the 80's - my ex-husband grew up there, and that was the area where I experienced my first major flood. It really was shocking.
@ Scondo - you are thick! The point of my question was just to have some knowledgeable people give me their thoughts, as I am not into government or studies. I wanted to hear from someone who has been through it - not someone who thinks they know all that is getting a piece from the dam commission.
The dam is to blame for all of our problems-in my opinion, however in the event of a hurricane, I do expect some flooding, but not the amount that we did get.

@Dianne, laughably you call me thick. Yet you grew up in a flood plain town, your ex husband and you experienced flooding in Huffman grove , and you move to a neighborhood that floods. There is an old saying that goes to repeating the same action over and over again expecting a different result......you will probably figure it out eventually. btw, the feeders dam will not affect Pompton Plains at all, as the flooding in Pompton plains originates from more than two points, the aquatic park area, the regency house area, the hamburg turnpike area.

@Diane, The cost of the tunnel would have been less of what the cost was for the spring floods of 2010 and 2011. When you figure in Ins claims,buyouts, And the fema money to raise homes. Plus the loss of tax dollars the residents that were bought out use to pay. The money lost to the businesses that were flooded or you couldn't get to because of the flooded roads. And lastly The overtime paid by the towns because of the floods and clean up afterwards. I feel the tunnel would have paid for it self already if it was built after the 84 flood like they planned to do..
@Scondo People like me buy there homes where they can afford to. Not everyone can afford to live on top of a hill. I left the Grove and built a new home that took me a year working on it on weekends and my vacations.It's on the edge of the flood plain. I built it high enough that if a major strom came? It wouldn't get in my living area. Irene was halfway up my driveway. The other side of the street had it 4 feet in there homes.

@Scondo: How dare you appoint yourself the all knowing flood expert and denigrate folks who both suffer through these floods and sign their real names? You have neither compassion nor courage. You are a disgrace. (And that goes for each of the people sharing the Scondo screen name.)

Instead of criticizing people who bought property in a flood zone, why don't you criticize the government officials who zoned these areas for residences? Had these officials never permitted the land to be developed, there wouldn't be an issue.

We the people should be able to rely on our government's judgment that living in an area they say we can live in, is ok and safe.

I've lived along the river for 46 years and know that it's behavior changed significantly when the gates went operational. The historical crests at Little Falls are in graph format at passaicriverbasin.com which may help with perspective. With flood levels under 10' things are tolerable, a couple of days of water on the street every few years. Now they hover around 12' and have been destroying peoples lives. All this to protect 300 modest homes in Oakland. This 'flow in = flow out' argument? What did they have before the gates? Was that not flow in = flow out? I'm sure the Army Corps of New Yorks' calculations look good on paper most of us have the sense to recognize that things don't always work the same in real life. It's the demonstrated results of the last 5 years that matter. If you want a true account of what the gates do then shut them down for a few years, let's see what happens. But our governor and his appointments at the DEP dismiss the affected residents invaluable experience as anecdotal and, just as telling, didn't close the gates pending the outcome of the report. Can anyone tell me why the independent review was initially to be done by URS Corporation in San Fransisco at a cost of $120,000 (http://www.northjersey.com/news/117917409_More_eyes_on_the_dam.html) but was later switched to AECOM of New York at a cost of $336,380? (http://www.northjersey.com/topstories/pomptonlakes/State_hires_firm_to_investigate_Pompton_Lake_flood_patterns.html)

Scondo:
Some of your comments are so ridiculous they are almost funny. No one said that the gates didnt come into play during Irene. The gates most definitely WERE in play during Irene. If you were to look at the hydrograph from Sunday, August 28 you will see that the gates were opened around 8 in the morning sending a deluge of water into Pompton lakes. They caused a flash flood in my neighborhood. The gates reamined open on all day sunday. The*- wayne area got about 10.5 inches of rain in Hurricane irene ...explain why the ramapo river at pompton lakes rose to over 22 feet with 10.5 inches of rain in irene when during Hurricane Floyd where Wayne experienced 12.25 inches of rain BEFORE THE DAM, The ramapo only rose to 15 feet. Strange. Its also strange to me that if you look at the historical crests of the ramapo river at mahwah and the ramapo river at pompton lakes. if you compare the how much the river rose in each loaction on the dates previous to dams opening they are within a foot of each other...however if you compare the rise of the rivers after the dans opening, pompton lakes will always be at least 4 feet higher. Again I say its strange how all this rainfall didnt affect mahwah as negatively. And in reponse to people buyinhg a flood zone, I dont know Diane's situation but I can tell you speaking for myself ny home was not in a flood zone A when I bought it, FEMA had to update the flood maps due to the dam.

My husband and I said the exact same thing as you regarding the dam, Why didnt they shut it down during the study!! that would be the best test...shut the dam thing down during the next storn and let nature take its cousre again.

@ Scondo - for your information, I do not make millions of dollars, and I am proud of myself for being able to afford to own my own home at all - as we all should be if we own homes in Wayne, regardless of where they are. And I did extensive research on my home before I bought it. Yes it was in a flood plain, and it did require flood insurance (which I pay for as well), but the only flood it had on record was back in the 1960's. I am sure that it flooded in 1984 too, but the people probably didn't have flood insurance, so the flood was not on record of the house. Until 2007, 2010, and 2011, my house did not see any water, as was the case I understand for many of us on here.
@ everyone else - I think Cathy has a real good idea here - why don't they shut it down for one storm and see what happens? @Joe - I didn't even realize it was that many homes in Oakland that the dam was helping - I thought it was only 10 or so! @ Leanbean - you are so right about the cost it has taken to clean up the floods vs the initial cost of the tunnel, but I think we all know that the governments don't use common sense when talking about spending. I really wish that they would revisit that tunnel idea from what you have said - it may just be the only answer. @ Rob - you are right - if they had never made these areas livable it would have been better for all, and saved everyone a lot of money.

The flood tunnel plan originated in 1939. Yes 1939. Which if my math is correct is about 73 years old. Politicians such as Lauttenberg, Bradley, Robert Roe and Scott Rumana have all supported the plan. The Passaic River Coalition, the environmental group opposed it, just as they opposed building two large detention storage facilities that could have retained some flood waters. It was environmental groups that killed the tunnel. Get your facts right, so do you really think a flood tunnel will be built in your lifetime. Heck, the Chinese can build a 300 mph border to border train system in 2 years, it takes us 5 years to approve a simple wind turbine

Scondo...was there a dam break in 2007, 2010, and March 2011? Did you forget that part of the eqaution?

Point of fact the flood gate study was commissioned by the state government, not the army corps of engineers, and it was performed by an independent engineering concern, in much the same way a CPA firm certifies the books of a company. It is not per se a government report.

Scondo I am just trying to figure out why in every storm since the dams opening the ramapo river in pompton floods at least 4 feet higher than in mahwah. Even during Irene, and like you said there was a dam break in Tuxedo which of course affected Mahwah too...I am not saying that the dam break didnt affect both towns negatively...but why was Pompton, Wayne and everything downstream impacted so much more,

Conclusion

New Jersey Infrastructure Report Card Conclusions are:

Wastewater = D

Drinking Water = C

Parks and Recreation = C-

Dams = C-

Energy = C+

Aviation = D

Ports and Navigable Waterways = C

Roads = D

Bridges = D

CUMULATIVE NJ GPA = C-

* The analysis of Rails and Schools is continuing.

Scondo....there will always be inequities in the giving of financial aid, both by the State and the federal gov't. If I read correctly, and I hope I did,,the City of Passaic will get a windfall of 100 million dollars, ( Yes, 100 million) over the next two years). This represents cuts made by Christie which the State Supreme Court is ordering to be restored. Wayne this year received about 3.5 million. Seems a little lopsided to me!

Well Rob, whose job is it to represent nj in getting it share of federal revenue sharing?
If more came back there might be a means of assisting flood ravaged communities, no?

I also read that Mayor Cole would like to conduct a independent study of the floodgates. Perhaps Wayne, Pequannock, Lincoln Park, Little Falls, and Paterson can pool their money together to support this. I don't believe any one is saying that they would like to see the flood protection given Oakland taken away. I'm not even sure if that could be possible without an act of congress. However, it may be time for Federal and State agencies to look at this problem from a cost effective way. The target area of the project is protecting around 300 homes at the cost of say 290,000 per home. The reason I picked 290,000 was because a friend of mine just sold her 3 bedroom home on Manitou for a bit less. Not in a flood zone - never in one.  Now compare that to how many homes are now being repeatedly flooded, because the water gets to our neighborhoods faster, because the river can not hold the added velocity of water. It is my understanding that if the  operation of the floodgates is changed to no longer protect the project area the Army Corp will walk away from the project. Come on New Jersey do the right thing and let them go. This was a part of a much bigger project that was never going to be done. 

Scondo:
I agree with you about the topography and such being different in the two areas, however It still doent explain why before dams opening the flooding seemed to be close to the same in both towns and now after the dam it is constantly worse in Pompton lakes * like I said by at least 4 feet or more. The topography has not changed...why the drastic change in the rise of the river. Its due to the fact that alln the water that used to flood oakland is being pushed down stream, The dam releases water when the lake gets to 11,5 feet (flood stage). There is not a question in my mind that dam is causing the flooding to be worse.

No more studies. No more studies to study the studies. No more committees to evaluate the studies. Keep the gates closed. Try it once and you'll see what we who live here already know. Everything is worse since the gates became operational. Experentia docet.

Historical Crests for Ramapo River at Pompton Lakes – National Weather Service 
At 17 ft water is surrounding the house at 11 South Road, but has not come in to the living areas. At 16 ft the house on 16 Lake Road has water coming into the yard, but is not in the house. At 18.5 feet the water is starting to come into the road by North and Shore.

*Major Flood Stage (MFS): 14.5 ft *Moderate Flood Stage (mfs): 13.5 ft 
*Flood Stage (FS): 11.5 ft *Action Stage (AS): 10 ft

2011 
1. September 8, 2011 - 14.33 ft (mfs) 
2. August 29, 2011 22.62 ft (MFS) South & Lake Road 
3. April 17, 2011 - 14.80 ft (MFS) 
4. March 11, 2011 - 16.72 ft (MFS) Lake Road 
5. March 7, 2001 - 15.83 ft (MFS) 
2010 
1. March 31, 2010 - 11.12 ft (FS) 
2. March 14, 2010 - 18.05 ft (MFS) South and lake Road 
2008 
1. December 12, 2008 - 11.03 ft (FS) 
2007 
1. December 24, 2007 - 13.02 ft (FS) 
2. April 16, 2007 - 16.99 ft (MFS) Lake Road 
2005 
1. October 13, 2005 - 13.66 ft (mfs) 
2. April 3, 2005 - 14.22 (mfs) 
3. March 29, 2005 - 10.58 ft on (AS) 
1984 
1. April 5, 1984 - 21.60 ft (MFS) South and Lake Road

I agree with Steve. I think that all of the studies just say whatever they want you to think, not what actually is going on. No more studies - it is time to try something new and see what happens.

Conclusion
this assessment has determined the most cost effective method to stabilize the failed stream bank condition is hammered rock stabilization at an estimated cost of $600,00. This estimate does not include the permitting procedures which can be better determined following consultation with DEP.

As previously stated the factors contributing to the failure of the area have not been investigated within this report. The intent has been rather to summarize the means of stabilizing a significant stream bank failure which currently is resulting in extensive property damage, introduction of mature trees into the Ramapo River waterway, and if left unattended, could result in the ultimate loss of residences as habitable, safe structures.
http://www.oakland-nj.org/PDF/Erosion_Page/RamapoRiverReport.pdf

who idea is this Oakland's - let's get the water moving in faster down stream to Wayne and Pompton Lakes

Sandy, or anyone else that may know - Does anyone know why that didn't clean out the river behind the farm on Black Oak? My fiancee and I walked down to the feeder dam on Sunday, and that part of the river has not been cleared of trees and debris. Does anyone know why they didn't do that section?

I will look at it - I have seen behind Mc Cobb's and Dunkin Donuts, and it looks beautiful. I knew that they were cleaning up in our neighborhood, and I expected it to look beautiful back there. However, all of the flood debris is still there and it hasn't been touched. It just figures, doesn't it?

Scando, Dianne is talking about the tow path that runs behind the post office then the old mans house goes along the farm to Maple Lane and joins up with South Road. I don't think she is talking about the islands, though that would be a added bonus.
Scando thought you where going to stop by.

You are right Sandy - we walked from Maple Lane entrance to the tow path down to the Feeder Dam, all Wayne Property. Cleaning up the island would be cool, but I think its more important to at least clean up along the tow path. There's car batteries and coolers and bikes all over down there. My fiancee thinks that they didn't bother cleaning it up because it can't be seen from the street, so therefore it has no "PR" value.

That very well could be. People walk the tow path a lot during the nice weather. I've noticed and heard from people who boat the river that it is extremely shallow now.

I'm disheartened to read that the members of the Passaic Valley Flood Commission took the 'company line!"
COME ON TOWNS do the right thing and join Mayor Cole of Pompton Lakes and continue to fight this.

Gov's flood commission fails to address local concerns
http://www.northjersey.com/topstories/littlefalls/147624665_Gov_s_flood_commission_fails_to_address_local_concerns__officials_say.html?scpromo=1

@ George - I do agree with you - Pompton Lakes did an absolutely awesome job in cleaning up their side of the river. I wish that we could say the same for Wayne. It's a good question as to where the grant money went for Wayne when we were using our DPW guys on taxpayer dime to clean the riverbanks instead of subcontracting out.

Got this email today:
Hold public officials accountable! Ask them "What's up with the dam gates?",
"Oakland's OK. How come we're not?"

The event details are:

Occupy the Floodgates
William Paterson University
300 Pompton Road
Wayne, NJ 07470
Wednesday, 2 May 2012, 4:00 PM

To sign up for this event, click here: (you'll have to paste into your browser window)
http://pol.moveon.org/event/99communitybuild/129624

All this rambling about a report which represents the myopic viewpoint of a government agency which is arguably self-serving is not time well spent. This basin is a well documented flood zone dating back to early 1920s and the damn gates simply accentuate an existing problem (no Bayesian statistics needed for that conclusion). We are better served by exploring other, previously recommended solutions (like retention reservoirs) which was raised by an earlier Army Corps Engineer report from the 80s.