The chicken came before the egg. I know that 100%. Mystery solved. I did not have any eggs until after I had chickens. Period. End of story.

"As a new chicken owner, I can say in my view regulation of these is needed. I have 16, and with the rain and the heat, they smell."

That's exactly what Alfieri's neighbors said at the council meeting, that they could not enjoy their yard beacuse of the smell of the chickens.

Alfieri insists the chickens are not loud or noisy, despite complaints from his neighbors to the contrary.

Should we believe the chicken-owner, or his neighbors?

Only 1 neighbor has complained twice - There complaints are 2 years, 6 months, and 16 days apart.

Hey dude! Wheres your chicken?

I have 16 hens. Ten feet away from their pen there is no odor. If I only had four hens, and they were 25 feet away from your NOSE, you wouldn't smell or hear a thing. Reasonable regulation doesn't mean outright ban. It means reasonable regulation. I suggested parameters that I think are reasonable based on my real life experience owning hens. What do you think of my suggested parameters?

And dude, what's your opinion on the fact that Alfieri hasn't violated any ordinance because he hasn't ever sold anything? Should he be prosecuted? Should he be called a law breaker?

If anyone wants to form their own opinion of the smell or the noise, you may feel free to visit my Victory Garden and Learning Center at 2122 Hamburg Turnpike. Don't take my word for it, or victor alfieri's or some faceless coward hiding behind an anonymous screen name. It won't take you more than 5 minutes to draw your own conclusion based on your actual real life experience.

To the dude: You can't compare 16 chickens to only 3. With adequate upkeep 3 chickens should be no big deal when it comes to odors or noise. How come you have to hide under a name like "the dude"?

Burke reported "with the rain and the heat, they smell."

I don't need to visit his lot...I believe him.

Now that's in an open area, on a windy ridge, in May.

Imagine the effect in an enclosed residential lot, in the stagnant air of August.

The neighbors testified at the council meeting that they could not sit comfortably
in their own backyard, because of the foul smell of their Alfieri's chickens.

The fact that they had to make official complaint to the township for relief,
not once but twice, indicates that there has been an ongoing problem for years.

The current ordinance sets reasonable parameters, however it should be modified
to remove the agricutural qualification...the birds stink whether you sell the eggs or not.

Claire...there are many anonymous posters on this site,
yet you only question those who disgaree with you.

To you I say .....rasberries.

I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. That, or His Dudeness … Duder … or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.

I will call you Doodie. That's to match your cowardice with the quality of your posts. First, victor has not violated any law. I challenge you to post the text of any law that you claim he has violated. There is none.

Second, you fear visiting and observing hens in person because you will be forced to stop lying and to be reasonable. The beauty of my offer, though, is that you can't stop others from gaining personal experience based on their own observations. And then making decisions for themselves as they form their own opinions.

Yes, 16 hens smell. But the odor is nt detectable from 15 feet away. An outright ban is unjustifiable. Just like a death sentence would be unjustifiable if you continue to refuse to shower and use deodorant.

@Claire: It turns out that there are easy ways to manage the smell. I just picked up more feed up at the farm that I got my hens from. The owner told me a couple cups of lime sprinkled around will virtually eliminate the smell. I will find out for myself soon enough.

I hope you can come by for the ribbon cutting on Saturday, June 16 at 1 pm. I'd love to see you there.

Note to everyone: all are welcome to come to the ribbon cutting.

You'd think an expert like Alfieri would have known that remedy...apparently not,
since the smell of his 3 hens repeatedly forced his neighbors indoors.

Now, since we are appropriating nicknames,
I shall refer to you two as Rob Jurke and Claire Furburger.

Quite appropriate...don't you think?

Silly Doodie, we only call you Doodie because you are a coward hiding behind an anonymous screen name, spewing lies, venom and hatred. Since we sign our names to everything we write, you can mock us by rhyming with our actual names, and everyone knows who we are. We don't hide under a rock like you, Doodie. And you, Doodie, are the one who insisted on using a nickname and offered that we use any variation of the dude. If the Doodie fits, I guess you'll wear it.

In the meantime, since three chickens don't smell fifteen feet from their coop, and since victor hasn't violated any law that you have reprinted here, why are you still attacking him and insulting him? Do you have diverticulitis or something?

Do you have diverticulitis or something?

Rob I just spit out my 20 year old brown spirit....too funny.

Hey Dude...I have 3 hens I do not have smelly hen problems.
But I have read about the citrus, It's used in dog & cat kennels.
I have never needed it.

My complaining neighbor has a 60 pound dog.

Questions for you dude.
What produces more waste?
3 hens or a 60 pound dog?

Come on buddy, your pea brain can figure it out.

Maybe your chickens' smell doesn't carry, but yours are in an open area,
on a windy ridge in May and early June...yet you still reported that they smell.

The neighbors testified that the smell of his chickens drove them indoors.

If the neighbors were more than 15 feet from the chickens,
then the smell obviously carries more than 15 feet in certain environments,
including enclosed residential areas and calm winds.

I have not attacked or insulted the chicken man in this thread,
but you have attacked and insulted those who disagree with you.

Is that because you are a Burke, or a jurke, or both?

Alfi...were your neighbors lying when they testified at the council meeting
that they could not enjoy their yard, and have been forced indoors due to
the smell of your chickens?

In the article above, you insist the chickens are not loud or noisy,
despite complaints from your neighbors to the contrary.

Who should we beieve?

Are the conditions that your neighbors report not possible?

Your jurkey friend reported that "...with the rain and the heat, they smell."

His chickens smell, but yours don't or haven't or won't smell?

Burke: "It turns out that there are easy ways to manage the smell...a couple cups of lime sprinkled around will virtually eliminate the smell."

Alfieri: " I have read about the citrus, It's used in dog & cat kennels."

LOL...classic.

Hey...I read that lime tastes real good in a margarita.

Good lord, where on earth did you get your chicken-expert merit badge anyway?

Doodie, try to keep up with this very simple logic. There is no law that prohibits the keeping of hens for personal consumption. Period. If there was such a law, i am sure that Your Doodiness would have told us all about it by now. And I am also sure that victor would have been found guilty from his trial from almost a month ago, by now.

As for my location. Yes, I am on a windy ridge. That's why a wind turbine makes so much sense at my property.

But my hens live nestled against a big wooded, hill where the air is stagnant.

Doodie, we all agree that hens should be regulated. But right now, they aren't. You need to call the lawmakers and campaign for whatever regulations you want, if you are he'll bent on the issue. But in all events, victor's hens aren't going anywhere. His is a ore existing confirming use, and by law will be grandfathered no matter what regulations are hereafter adopted.

I am no longer going to sit here and listen to Doodie bad mouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

Doodie, why don't you come out from under your rock and show yourself? Are you that ashamed of the words you post? I wouldn't blame you if you are.

Phony Furbuger...you wrote this:

Claire Furber
3:00 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
To the dude: You can't compare 16 chickens to only 3. With adequate upkeep 3 chickens should be no big deal when it comes to odors or noise.

Hey Jurke...Oliver Wendell Douglas from Woodlot Farms wants to know whether to use lime slices or wedges to eliminate the smell of his backyard chickens.

134-29.1
Agriculture, including farm markets and commercial farms, shall be permitted in all zones, in accordance with the following requirements and limitations:

A. Any form of agriculture or horticulture except:

(2) The keeping of chickens or other fowl, unless on property of 2 acres or more and provided that for a number up to 25 they are kept in a building or yard no part of which is closer than 20 feet to a dwelling on the same plot nor less than 50 feet from either side or rear property line and 200 feet from the front yard property line and, that for a number in excess of 25, they are kept in a yard or building not more than 2 stories high and no part of which building or yard is closer than 50 feet to a dwelling on the same plot nor within 200 feet of any property line. The restrictions contained in this subsection shall not apply to the raising and breeding of homing pigeons, since it is hereby determined that they are not fowl.

With that said, the law includes farmers markets, yet it is not limited to them. And might I add that some points made here are very good, and others of you I think need to get a life - ex. Claire Furber. You take shots at who you incorrectly think is Pandie, then I will take shots at you. I am 1/2 the age of most of you, yet I act more mature - its funny.
Rob - the garden looks very nice by the way - I applaud you.

@Diane Hummel: Thanks for the nice words about our Victory Garden.

As for your legal analysis, you stopped short. The part you left out is the definition of "Agriculture," found in §134-2.2, which clearly states:

"Agriculture means the production PRINCIPALLY FOR THE SALE TO OTHERS of plants, animals or their products..."

So unless Victor sells eggs, chickens, meat or manure to others, he cannot even be accused of violating the ordinance you cite. In fact, Town Planner Szabo testified under oath that he has no evidence that Victor has ever sold anything to anyone.

I still think that backyard hens should be regulated. Right now, they aren't. I also believe that justice delayed is justice denied. Can anyone think of a single instance in the history of the world where a municipal judge took 6 weeks to rule on an ordinance violation????

Its patently absurd that Victor's good name and reputation have been sullied by false accusations by elected officials that he is a lawbreaker. I, for one, find these accusations to be reckless at best, and malicious at worst.

@ Rob - I do understand the part about "principally" being for sale to others, but it does not say "solely" for sale to others. It seems to be one of those loopholes that can be interpreted in many ways. I do agree with you that the law can be changed to reflect the times slightly, but the lot sizes in that area are indeed VERY small.

@Diane: I know you know that there can't be any way on God's green earth to say that someone who never sold eggs to anyone could stand accused of keeping hens principally to sell eggs to others. There's nothing to argue and there's no loophole. The ordinance in question does not regulate the keeps of hens for personal consumption.

Victor deserves an apology from those who have called him a law breaker. He deserves an acquittal from Judge Katz, which is now a month overdue, inexplicably.

And a reasonable regulation of hens is needed. I won't repeat my thoughts in that regard. They are fully set forth elsewhere in other comments to this story.

Funny you say that, I was just offered via e-mail $1,000 donation from a Wayne resident, if I need to lawyer up for the appeal.

We will see.......

Unfortunately, we are dealing with a town government which is all about power and control. Hopefully, Judge Katz will make the right and proper decision. I too agree that the ordinance is in your favor. However, this is Wayne and stranger things have happened. I find it somewhat unusual that the Judge is taking this long to rule on the decision. Victor, I hope you prevail in this matter. After all, good should always prevail over evil.

Victor - with all due respect, the fight is not about whether you live a healthier sustainable lifestyle. I happen to agree with your interpretation of the law, and it's a shame that change in this country usually comes about after a lawsuit like this, usually at great cost to an individual who fights for princple. I admire that. At the end of the day, the law may need to be updated but it really comes down to a significant difference of opinion on land use in a small, enclosed area. Personally, I rue the day that this place turned into a city. Our small suburban lots simply do not lend themselves to certain agricultural activity no matter how well intended. We all have to co-exist and if certain animals or activities are considered too offensive to the quiet enjoyment of one's property, well, that's an issue of modern society. I think most reasonable people would support your effort but, in the vein of Rob Burke's post, perhaps it is just too difficult to make a reasonable accommodation on such a small plot of land in order to make everyone happy. The council has to make policy for 55,000 people, not just one guy with good intentions who has a reasonable difference of opinion with his neighbor. Sometimes it's not even about the right or wrong of a particular situation. Don't be surprised if the law is updated only to find that it restricts you in some other, more direct fashion. Now that the issue is raised, it really isn't just about you, even if it seems that way.

@WW: I agree that making everyone happy is a fools errand. So that's why we should send Doodie out for that task. But the fact is that there is no law that victor is in violation of. I again challenge anyone to post right here and right now the text of any law that is broken by owning three hens and not selling anything ever. Councilwoman miller ryan visited my Victory Garden a couple days ago. I don't want to put words in her mouth, but it's my impression that she agrees that reasonable setbacks and limits make sense. I agree with that too. Since there is no restriction at all right now, the concil needs to confer with its lawyer and put something in place. And as to victor, guess what? He will be grandfathered no matter what. His hens are a fully conforming use that predate any regulation that changes the status quo ante. You are right, though, WW, it isn't about victor. It's much bigger than that.

How many chickens should one be allowed to have??? 1? 3? 10? What about ducks? Sheep? Cows? Where is the line drawn? Has nothing to do with taxes now does it? Would you be ok if your neighbors were allowed to raise chickens and if so how many can they have? With the amount that we pay what else should we be allowed to have? Remember your next door neighbor pays just about the same in taxes as you do now don't they...Its always ok for someone else until it becomes the same ole' "Not in my backyard"

@eyes: I think you are asking the right questions. What should the regulations of keeping hens be, and why? My opinion, now that I own 16, is that the potential of undesirable smells is the primary driver for regulation. I also think its difficult to justify a need for more than five hens, since they will lay about 1500 eggs a year, collectively. My experience tells me that the smell of 16 hens isn't detectable 15 feet away from them. I would think the smell of five hens would be even less detectable. So my experience suggests a 25 foot setback and a five hen limit should be ok. But you never know. And since you never know, why not do a pilot program, and start by issuing a limited number of licenses, say maybe 50 town wide. And revisit the issue a year later based on that experience.

As far as regulating other kinds of animals? I would think they should be dealt with based on the animal. I don't think keeping an elephant at your house would be such a good idea, for example. Nor do I think that prohibiting elephants has any bearing on regulating hens.

Jeff - why don't you come by the cad wash so we can discuss. Maybe for the ribbon cutting?

Yes, it's called massive property tax appeals. This year's appeals will create a significant shortfall in revenue, so expect an increase in the rate to make up for it.

Here you go Rob. Right down your alley. This guy might need a lawyer who knows a thing or two about chicken Law. New Milford must be easier to deal with than Wayne.

@Rex: I'm not sure, but the post says that the ordinance there is a blanket prohibition. If that's accurate, there isn't anything to do with lawyering. The only path would be to get the lawmakers to change the law. A grass roots effort over time is probably the best path, which I am certain victor would help with as would I. I do believe, though, regulation is necessary and important.

In any event, Rex, I'd like to invite you to the ribbon cutting at my Victory Garden. It's at 1 pm on Saturday the 16 th. It's time to look forward and do good things together, as a unified community. It would mean a lot to me if you stopped by. I understand we share an interest in hiking - we may have more in common than first meets the eye.

Rob is correct, the New Milford law outright prohibits keeping poultry in the Borough with the exception of homing pidgeons. The law in question is a board of health law and only the board can change it, which they refuse to do. The following link is to a Patch article about the meeting I went to on Wednesday and also a summary of my unsucessful fight to get my chickens back. Unlike Victor, I was in clear violation of the law and had to remove the chickens. Here is the link: http://newmilford-nj.patch.com/articles/board-of-health-tells-chicken-outlaw-this-is-over-with

@Jeff: We can still organize and get the law changed. It will take time, but it can be done. If you want our help, I'm in.

@Rob, thank you for the offer. I definitely want to continue to pursue this and can use all the help I can get. I remember reading about your fight to get a wind turbine around the time I had my solar panels installed. As a side note, New Milford recently passed an ordinance that severly restricts solar panel installations.

I just ordered a pair of pushme-pullyous. Cost me a thousand USD. But I will be the only one on my block. I got an email receipt from Doctor Doolittle.

Hey Nose...If I want to raise Anaconda's in my pool, is that legal?

Yes. They were examined by Doctor No.

I gave him directions. Told him to turn left at the viaduct. He asked, why a duck? Why not a horse? Or a chicken?